2000-11-29 21:16:04 +0000 started lisp/00.11.29
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2000-11-29 21:16:04 +0000 list (clog Fare rahul lispbliss Project7 @smoke Fufie f00f toby varjag yCrazyEdd emu StriderZ M-x [StriderZ] wli timmy)
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2000-11-29 21:33:00 +0000Project7(tolkien.openprojects.net forward.openprojects.net)
2000-11-29 21:44:47 +0000 <smoke> is there a way to tell cl to optimize everything ? (declare only works inside a function)
2000-11-29 21:44:56 +0000 <rahul> declaim it
2000-11-29 21:45:35 +0000 <rahul> same syntax as declare, only toplevel
2000-11-29 21:45:45 +0000 <Fufie> use PROCLAIM
2000-11-29 21:45:54 +0000 <rahul> why proclaim instead?
2000-11-29 21:45:54 +0000 <Fufie> DECLAIM is only guaranteed to work for a file
2000-11-29 21:46:06 +0000 <rahul> oh, I figured he meant in a file
2000-11-29 21:46:09 +0000 <Fufie> s/a/one/
2000-11-29 21:46:17 +0000 <rahul> it's a good point, tho
2000-11-29 21:46:58 +0000 <Fufie> DECLAIM overrides PROCLAIMs for individual files in one implementation at least
2000-11-29 21:47:13 +0000 <smoke> something like (proclaim '(optimize (speed 3) (safety 0))) then?
2000-11-29 21:47:30 +0000 <rahul> I don't think the ' is needed
2000-11-29 21:47:34 +0000 <Fufie> smoke: yes.. set debug to 0 as well.. safety is best set to 1 globally
2000-11-29 21:47:58 +0000 <Fufie> smoke: and then set safety to 0 for inner-loops only with DECLARE
2000-11-29 21:49:27 +0000 <Fufie> using macros for inner-declares is imho a good thing because it is a mess to update DECLAREs all over the place
2000-11-29 21:49:33 +0000P1nK_SP1d3r(karim@APastourelles-101-1-1-214.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #lisp
2000-11-29 21:49:46 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> hi !
2000-11-29 21:49:56 +0000 <timmy> hi..
2000-11-29 21:50:15 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> timmy: are u a programmer ?
2000-11-29 21:50:23 +0000 <timmy> i guess so
2000-11-29 21:50:31 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> sorry :)
2000-11-29 21:50:39 +0000 <timmy> why?
2000-11-29 21:51:00 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> i ask because i want to program but i don't know how begin
2000-11-29 21:51:30 +0000 <timmy> hold on
2000-11-29 21:51:36 +0000 <timmy> do you have #debian?
2000-11-29 21:51:39 +0000 <timmy> err
2000-11-29 21:51:44 +0000 <timmy> debian
2000-11-29 21:52:16 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> not installed but i've got the CD (i'm at a friend)
2000-11-29 21:52:25 +0000 <timmy> what are you running on?
2000-11-29 21:53:06 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> mandrake... (don't blame me but i can configure the debian for internet...:( )
2000-11-29 21:53:34 +0000 <timmy> hmm
2000-11-29 21:53:36 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> i mean i CAN'T configure debian
2000-11-29 21:53:57 +0000 <rahul> what internet connection?
2000-11-29 21:54:02 +0000 <timmy> the easiest start to programming would be getting a scheme interpreter and looking at a scheme tutorial like this: http://www.cs.rice.edu/~dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme.html
2000-11-29 21:54:03 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> adsl
2000-11-29 21:54:11 +0000 <rahul> dhcp?
2000-11-29 21:54:42 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> i already look at the
2000-11-29 21:54:48 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> cisp book
2000-11-29 21:55:00 +0000 <timmy> oh so you know a little?
2000-11-29 21:55:01 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> is it a good book, isn't it ?
2000-11-29 21:55:14 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> timmy: yes, a little
2000-11-29 21:55:28 +0000 <timmy> i don't have any lisp books
2000-11-29 21:55:58 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> me too (i had take it from my school library)
2000-11-29 21:56:15 +0000 <timmy> my school library wouldn't have something like that..
2000-11-29 21:56:18 +0000 <timmy> heh
2000-11-29 21:56:27 +0000 <timmy> well that should be fine i guess
2000-11-29 21:56:29 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> what king of school ?
2000-11-29 21:56:34 +0000 <smoke> hmz seems the multimethod dispatch is the bottleneck
2000-11-29 21:56:38 +0000 <timmy> public magnet high school
2000-11-29 21:56:46 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> where ?
2000-11-29 21:56:46 +0000 <rahul> smoke: declare types
2000-11-29 21:57:05 +0000 <timmy> tn
2000-11-29 21:57:34 +0000 <smoke> rahul: hm how do you mean? the bottleneck i'm referring to is probably in (image-blit ((source image-8bpp) (dest image-8bpp) x y) ...)
2000-11-29 21:58:18 +0000 <Fufie> smoke: mm in cmucl isn't as fast as it could be no, esp when dispatching on two args
2000-11-29 21:58:27 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> timmy: what kind of programme can we do with scheme ?
2000-11-29 21:58:43 +0000 <smoke> fufie: boohoo. it's one of the most important calls i'm using
2000-11-29 21:59:05 +0000 <rahul> smoke: use memcpy
2000-11-29 21:59:17 +0000 <timmy> P1nK_SP1d3r: scheme is just less stuff than common lisp
2000-11-29 21:59:46 +0000 <rahul> scheme is CL - CLOS + continuations, mostly
2000-11-29 22:00:05 +0000 <Fufie> and lacking a decent set of functions to do real work
2000-11-29 22:00:11 +0000 <rahul> yeah
2000-11-29 22:00:19 +0000 <rahul> debuggers, too
2000-11-29 22:00:20 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> timmy: i understand but what king of programme have done with it for example ?
2000-11-29 22:00:31 +0000 <smoke> rahul: i _am_ using memcpy for the blit, the bottleneck is in the multimethod dispatch for calling IMAGE-BLIT
2000-11-29 22:00:39 +0000 <smoke> rahul: (or at least i think so)
2000-11-29 22:00:47 +0000 <rahul> smoke: PCL is slow, yeah
2000-11-29 22:00:56 +0000 <Fufie> smoke: can you optimise the call away through a compiler-macro?
2000-11-29 22:01:05 +0000 <timmy> P1nK_SP1d3r: scsh scwm etc...
2000-11-29 22:01:07 +0000 <rahul> declaring types really helps, tho
2000-11-29 22:01:29 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> timmy: sorry but i didn't understand :(
2000-11-29 22:01:37 +0000 <timmy> P1nK_SP1d3r: those are two programs
2000-11-29 22:01:59 +0000 <smoke> fufie: well, most of the image types are known at compile time yes, but not always
2000-11-29 22:02:14 +0000 <Fufie> smoke: where it is known, do the call directly..
2000-11-29 22:02:22 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> timmy: i understand it but what are they about ?
2000-11-29 22:02:27 +0000 <Fufie> smoke: you're allowed to "cheat"
2000-11-29 22:02:43 +0000 <timmy> P1nK_SP1d3r: one is a window manager for X and one is a shell
2000-11-29 22:04:11 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> scsh is the shell and scwm is the other, no ?
2000-11-29 22:04:12 +0000 <smoke> fufie: i'd prefer to fix cmucl's multimethod dispatch
2000-11-29 22:04:29 +0000 <Fufie> smoke: you're a brave soul :)
2000-11-29 22:05:00 +0000 <timmy> P1nK_SP1d3r: correct
2000-11-29 22:05:10 +0000 <smoke> would it be better to hack on sbcl? (for random improvements like these?)
2000-11-29 22:05:24 +0000 <P1nK_SP1d3r> timmy: i know them but what have u done for 'em ?
2000-11-29 22:05:46 +0000 <timmy> P1nK_SP1d3r: i haven't done anything, i thought you just wanted an example of a scheme program
2000-11-29 22:05:58 +0000 <Fufie> smoke: ask at the m-list for advice
2000-11-29 22:06:24 +0000 <Fare> Hum.
2000-11-29 22:06:26 +0000 <Fare> Gakuk!
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