2015/08/29

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2015-08-29 18:02:58 +0200razzledazzle(~razzledaz@113.199.191.57)
2015-08-29 18:17:13 +0200 <razzledazzle> why is char System.Console.Read() echoing "Successive arguments should be..."?
2015-08-29 18:18:53 +0200 <nsf> razzledazzle: show us the full line which contains that function call
2015-08-29 18:19:08 +0200 <nsf> if you pass the result from that function to something else
2015-08-29 18:19:16 +0200kmels(~kmels@184.62.151.186.static.intelnet.net.gt)
2015-08-29 18:19:23 +0200 <nsf> usually it's required to put parens around
2015-08-29 18:19:32 +0200 <razzledazzle> alright
2015-08-29 18:19:33 +0200 <nsf> like: DoThingX (System.Console.Read())
2015-08-29 18:20:04 +0200 <nsf> because otherwise it will be parsed as two arguments
2015-08-29 18:20:13 +0200 <nsf> DoThingX System.Console.Read ()
2015-08-29 18:20:28 +0200 <nsf> just a bit of grammar weirdness
2015-08-29 18:20:38 +0200 <nsf> however if you work with F# only, it usually looks like lisp:
2015-08-29 18:20:53 +0200 <nsf> Rect.CenteredAt (Vec2i 0) (Vec2i 500)
2015-08-29 18:20:55 +0200 <nsf> or something like that :D
2015-08-29 18:21:53 +0200 <razzledazzle> doing that here http://pastie.org/private/wtlkeejehdpinx9crbea
2015-08-29 18:23:12 +0200 <razzledazzle> quick correction http://pastie.org/private/ygwe9rzlfanzz1us7xl1w , please check this one, not the previous one
2015-08-29 18:23:37 +0200 <nsf> but yeah, parens around it are required there
2015-08-29 18:23:43 +0200 <nsf> seems like you've fixed it though
2015-08-29 18:24:01 +0200 <razzledazzle> doesn't work :P same message
2015-08-29 18:24:11 +0200 <nsf> hm
2015-08-29 18:24:19 +0200 <razzledazzle> oh new message, pardon me
2015-08-29 18:24:42 +0200 <nsf> :)
2015-08-29 18:24:46 +0200 <razzledazzle> it said it requires char but Read() returns an int
2015-08-29 18:24:58 +0200 <nsf> cast it to char then
2015-08-29 18:25:09 +0200 <nsf> but it will probably require even more parens
2015-08-29 18:25:11 +0200 <nsf> :D
2015-08-29 18:25:11 +0200 <razzledazzle> readChars (char System.Console.Read()) newList
2015-08-29 18:25:17 +0200 <nsf> (char (System.Console.Read()))
2015-08-29 18:25:20 +0200 <nsf> :D
2015-08-29 18:25:59 +0200 <razzledazzle> why does is another layer of parens required? shouldn't Read() evaluate to an integer that gets passed to char?
2015-08-29 18:26:28 +0200 <nsf> well, it's just how grammar works, parens are required around every function call with arguments
2015-08-29 18:26:34 +0200 <nsf> and () is like an empty argument
2015-08-29 18:26:37 +0200 <nsf> when it comes to read function
2015-08-29 18:26:56 +0200 <razzledazzle> but function calls can be made without parens
2015-08-29 18:27:10 +0200 <nsf> yes, but only if you have arguments to pass in
2015-08-29 18:27:22 +0200 <nsf> but then again, you pass the result to another function
2015-08-29 18:27:36 +0200 <nsf> if it bothers you, you can always write it this way:
2015-08-29 18:27:43 +0200 <nsf> let c = System.Console.Read()
2015-08-29 18:27:52 +0200 <nsf> readChars (char c) newList
2015-08-29 18:28:26 +0200 <nsf> it's just how syntax works, can't say it's pretty
2015-08-29 18:28:41 +0200 <razzledazzle> is it because F# parses from left to right?
2015-08-29 18:28:44 +0200 <nsf> but when you write a compiler you need to make hard decisions
2015-08-29 18:29:01 +0200 <nsf> it's because F# tries to support both ways to do function call
2015-08-29 18:29:05 +0200 <nsf> calls*
2015-08-29 18:29:23 +0200 <nsf> with parens when it comes to using .NET methods.. e.g. System.Math.Max(a, b)
2015-08-29 18:29:30 +0200 <nsf> and currying form for its own stuff
2015-08-29 18:29:45 +0200 <nsf> in syntax though the function call like I showed above
2015-08-29 18:29:52 +0200 <nsf> is a function call with one argument which is a tuple
2015-08-29 18:29:55 +0200 <frankbro> when you think about it, theres only just 1 way
2015-08-29 18:30:02 +0200 <nsf> so, yeah
2015-08-29 18:30:05 +0200 <frankbro> the C# way just involves always taking a single argument, a tuple
2015-08-29 18:30:15 +0200 <nsf> it's all a bunch of hacks to stick two worlds together
2015-08-29 18:30:31 +0200 <nsf> ML syntax with .NET world
2015-08-29 18:30:37 +0200 <razzledazzle> I'm okay with adding extra brackets, just wanted to know why. You see because, say char 12 is a valid expression, char System.Console.Read() should be too
2015-08-29 18:30:49 +0200 <frankbro> however, try to call F# curried functions in C# .. not so pleasant :P
2015-08-29 18:30:59 +0200 <nsf> hard to explain why
2015-08-29 18:31:18 +0200 <nsf> razzledazzle: System.Console.Read() is a valid expression
2015-08-29 18:31:29 +0200 <nsf> but you need parens when passing it to another functions
2015-08-29 18:31:34 +0200 <nsf> function*
2015-08-29 18:31:50 +0200 <nsf> there are tricks in F# to avoid extra parens in some cases
2015-08-29 18:31:55 +0200 <nsf> by using <| or |> operators
2015-08-29 18:32:04 +0200 <nsf> because for operators it's okay to leave parens out
2015-08-29 18:32:17 +0200 <razzledazzle> System.Console.Read() gets evaluated but System.Console.Read references the Read function right?
2015-08-29 18:32:26 +0200 <nsf> e.g.: "max 5 10 + min 100 20" is valid F#
2015-08-29 18:32:34 +0200 <razzledazzle> yes true
2015-08-29 18:32:38 +0200 <nsf> but if you pass things to arguments
2015-08-29 18:32:45 +0200 <nsf> max (min 100 20) 10
2015-08-29 18:32:48 +0200 <nsf> you need parens
2015-08-29 18:32:56 +0200 <nsf> because spaces are meaningful there
2015-08-29 18:33:09 +0200 <nsf> empty "argument" as in your case
2015-08-29 18:33:11 +0200 <nsf> which is ()
2015-08-29 18:33:17 +0200 <nsf> is just an exception that F# compiler can detect
2015-08-29 18:33:24 +0200 <nsf> if it had arguments
2015-08-29 18:33:28 +0200 <nsf> see how it will be parsed:
2015-08-29 18:33:41 +0200 <nsf> readChars System.Console.Read (a, b) newList
2015-08-29 18:33:51 +0200 <nsf> compiler will see it as a function call with 3 arguments
2015-08-29 18:33:54 +0200 <nsf> one of which is a tuple
2015-08-29 18:34:15 +0200 <nsf> > let x = ();;
2015-08-29 18:34:16 +0200 <nsf> val x : unit = ()
2015-08-29 18:34:26 +0200 <nsf> and actually () is a valid thing in F# on its own
2015-08-29 18:34:38 +0200 <nsf> which is a "unit"
2015-08-29 18:34:45 +0200 <nsf> so yeah
2015-08-29 18:34:48 +0200 <nsf> it's just how it is
2015-08-29 18:34:59 +0200 <nsf> am I succeeded with explaining? :)
2015-08-29 18:35:03 +0200 <nsf> have I*
2015-08-29 18:35:07 +0200 <nsf> oh, my english
2015-08-29 18:36:58 +0200 <razzledazzle> trying to parse what you've explained haha
2015-08-29 18:38:18 +0200 <razzledazzle> okay I know better now, thank you nsf :)
2015-08-29 18:38:22 +0200 <nsf> :D
2015-08-29 18:41:29 +0200razzledazzle(~razzledaz@113.199.191.57) (Quit: Leaving)
2015-08-29 18:44:25 +0200joneshf-laptop(~joneshf@98.208.35.89)